SEL for Teachers - Podcast

Join Megan Marcus and Kelley Munger as guests on the Getting Smart Podcast with Rebecca Midles to discuss SEL for Teachers and Relationship Building in classrooms, schools, and districts.

On this episode of the Getting Smart Podcast, Rebecca Midles sits down with our very own Megan Marcus and Kelley Munger to discuss SEL and relationship building.

In the podcast, they reflect on the distinctions between whole-child, SEL, and trauma-informed practices. “SEL focuses more on behaviors and skills and trauma broadens SEL by bringing in the story or history that a student/teacher brings into the classroom."

You can watch the video and read the full transcript below, or check out all the great episodes on the Getting Smart Podcast page, but our favorite quote from Dr. Kelley Munger is "We can't provide direct instruction or skills training to a child who doesn't feel safe, and we can't ask a teacher to teach SEL skills when they themselves are completely overwhelmed and stressed out in the classroom."

We can't provide direct instruction or skills training to a child who doesn't feel safe and we can't ask a teacher to teach SEL skills when they themselves are completely overwhelmed and stressed out in the classroom.

Dr. Kelley Munger

Partner, FuelEd

Kelley Munger and Megan Marcus on SEL for Teachers

Rebecca Midles: [00:00:00] Megan Marcus and Kelly Munger. Welcome to the getting smart podcast. I'm so happy to have you here. And we're looking forward to this conversation. Perhaps we could start with how you two met in the

Megan Marcus: [00:00:12] Oh, great question. So great to be here as well. Thank you for having us. So Kelly, I had met, started fuel ed in 2012 and Kelly and I met.

By way of Dr. Lou Cozolino, who was a really, obviously a huge inspiration for starting fuel ed. I had worked with him on the book, the social neuroscience of education and Kelly actually through a contact of hers had reached out to Dr. Cozolino, who pinged her over to me. She started as a trainer at fuel ed, and now it's a full time doing research and development with team.

Rebecca Midles: [00:00:45] Wonderful. Do you have any more to add to that Kelly?

Kelley Munger: [00:00:49] Just that when I read Megan's bio and fuel EDS sort of, I think it was a pitchy little flyer that someone sent me. It was love at first sight because it really brought together all of my passions in the field of education and attachment in therapy. So the rest is history. Here we are

Rebecca Midles: [00:01:10] wonderful, like to start off with, I think a question out there related to the work that you do that always comes up is the difference between social, emotional learning and trauma informed practices. And let's throw in one more whole child and whole person work.

Perhaps you could tell us about how you see those as different or how they're connected would be helpful to think about how we move to the rest of the questions.

Kelley Munger: [00:01:35] Sure. Okay. So we thought that was a really great question. And I would, I would say first off it's that social and emotional learning, generally speaking has focused a lot on behaviors and skills. Right. Really, really critical social and emotional skills that kids and teachers alike need to flourish in life. But where I think that trauma-informed learning and even whole child sort of a whole child focus really takes almost a different emphasis or maybe even broadens SEL as that trauma.

Right. It's bringing in the story and the history. That a student and or a teacher brings into the classroom. And so of course we know just through the science, that there is a critical relationship between the attachment history and the trauma history. What a student has gone through, what a teacher has gone through.

There's a critical connection between that story and the social and emotional development and skills that that teacher and student bring into a classroom. And so when we make that leap to whole child or whole person, we realize that we can't simply provide direct instruction skills, training to a child who doesn't feel safe.

And we can't ask a teacher to teach SEL skills when they themselves are completely overwhelmed or stressed out in the classroom. And so you know, through the work of, of brilliant people like Dr Cozolino and, and Dan Siegel, who is a really important figure in this field. We, we have learned that making sense of that history, the trauma history being truly trauma-informed involves telling a story involves receiving empathy for that story.

And that's a relational experience. And so we kind of almost look at the whole child perspective or the whole educator perspective. Is it enzyme or like yeast and a bread, right. You've got to have it in order to make those SEL skills rise and grow. And so yeah, at FuelEd, I think we try to incorporate all three lenses in our work because they all bring a really important and core critical set of skills to people.

Rebecca Midles: [00:04:01] You touched on life history in a way, correct? I mean, I think I heard a little bit of that and, and the ability for learners to tell their story and adults to know their story. Could you tell us more about that? I think that you have mentioned this before, when you were talking about attachment, but maybe you could add a little bit more to that.

Kelley Munger: [00:04:20] Sure. So our attachment stories, right? The stories of how we. Received early care of how we learned that, who we were, if how we learned that we're special, that we belong to someone, to a parent, to a family. This story is so, so important and setting our early relationship patterns, how we relate to one another.

Right? So you think of an infant and appearance typically every day, when that infant cries. That parent comes to the infant sees the need, meets the need, and that child moves from distress to calm. Right? This happens a million times a day. When you have an infant, that process is called co-regulation and it's foundational to developing self-regulation a sense of competence, a sense of self-esteem. We might call it a sense of feeling. Worthy and the world, which we know is critical to being able to learn, grow, and explore. And so if there were disruptions, gaps, needs in that early cycle of co-regulation, and that becomes a story that is embedded in the biology of that child in the way that that child learns and interacts in the world, and certainly how that child interacts with others. And, and so the cool thing about attachment, we would call that attachment, right? That, that relationship, that those early critical relationships that create safety the thing that's really cool about attachment is that it can change across the lifespan, what the lifespan.

And so part of our work at FuelEd is to help educators really experienced secure attachment. If they haven't already later in life. To have that experience of telling that attachment story, making sense of it, creating coherence in the brain, integrating the story, receiving empathy. We see that almost as like a bank transfer that it, it re it moves a story of loss or lack of safety into an experience of relational trust and safety.

And so of course that makes it sound really simple. But that is a powerful idea that we see in the science that I see in my clinical work and that we see with the team.

Rebecca Midles: [00:06:45] I think that's really important for us to call that often we talk about the journey of the learner and what you're really emphasizing. The journey of the learner before they came to us, the journey of the learner after they leave us and the journey of the teachers in front of the learner. So I see that that really ties into also maybe even deepening the understanding of what we mean when we talk about identity and how important that piece is with the new work around that.

So I loved that you elaborated more on that. I think that's a natural lead into also maybe talking about the differences with SEL practices for adults. And, and students in learn, I like to call learners, but where they're similar, where they're different, if they are different perhaps you could tell us about that.

Megan Marcus: [00:07:26] Great. I can jump in there. I think that there are some differences currently in practice today, but in an ideal world, they really shouldn't be different because we're all humans and we all learn through relationship. I will say that what I've seen as a big crux in the world of social, emotional learning is this focus on skill-building that happens through a curriculum.

Certainly, there's you know, a nod to like that relationships and environment are part of it. But I think when folks most often think about it, it's like, what worksheet can I do? You know what, 15-minute chunk in my, in my classroom, how can I use advisory to do this? It's just kind of an add-on. Something that gets woven in and something that's quite cognitive and behavioral.

So I think that's the state of you know, kind of the present-day state for social-emotional learning for kiddos. The truth is that, you know, social-emotional skills like self-regulation relationship skills, right? Empathy problem-solving. These don't get developed. They just don't aren't taught and learned in the same way, a cognitive skill like math you know, memorizing facts from history.

That's not the same way that our brain learns. All of those social skills are actually developed. And the way they're developed is through our early relationships and or subsequent relationships. And so while I do think there's certainly benefit in direct instruction about skills and behaviors for children, the most powerful way that children can learn and grow socially, emotionally is actually through the relationships they have with those around them. I'll just demonstrate an example of that.

Rebecca Midles: [00:09:08] Can I add to that too, before you do that, it almost seems too like the role modeling. Right? So that if you have the, yeah, okay.

Megan Marcus: [00:09:14] I'm yeah. A lot of people think of it and teachers oftentimes do say, yeah, like if I want my child to be respectful, I need to be respectful. And it's a little slightly different than that because it's not like, you'll know you do what I do. It's almost more this symbiotic relationship. Let me give an example. So let's think about one skill that's needed to build a secure attachment. Empathy, right. We need an educator to have empathy. Empathy is the ability to understand another person's emotional state, but the real power of empathy is when we can communicate our understanding.

So imagine your secondary teacher and the child comes crying about a fight on the playground. Really upset, really mad, and you're able to pause, breathe, stay in control yourself and say, Oh, I can see. You're really upset about this. In that moment, when you, as an educator respond to that student's distress with empathic understanding, utilizing those mirroring statements to reflect what that student needs, what they're feeling, what they're thinking, what are their problems?

All of a sudden what happens? It increases the student's self-awareness of their own needs, thoughts, feelings. Cause someone's put words to my own experience. Now I have the emotional vocabulary to name what I think feel a need. It helps a student self regulate, self manage, and we've all experienced what this feels like when we're understood.

We can breathe easier problems, feel lighter on a brain level. We're actually moving from operating in the right hemisphere to activating the left hemisphere and getting integration. It enables responsible decision-making and problem solving because empathy is calming. It puts us in a better state of mind to solve our own problems.

And lastly, it grows social awareness because understanding our own self is the foundation for understanding others. So as I walked through all of those competencies, it looks a lot like the many frameworks we see out there for social-emotional learning for children, but what the example demonstrates and what the very common frameworks we believe are missing is how creating an education system capable of developing such competencies in students is not as simple as equipping educators with a curriculum on grit or a scope and sequence on self-control.

Because social-emotional competencies, they're not learned like other cognitive skills. So no amount of flashcards or lesson plans or pop quizzes will go nearly as far as the teachers warmth, empathic, understanding, acceptance and honest communication. So it really is like lock and key. This experience of the educators, emotional intelligence and interpersonal skills are what creating moments of nurturance and care that essentially catalyzed a cascade of social-emotional learning for students.

Rebecca Midles: [00:12:04] It builds trust, right? Yeah.

Megan Marcus: [00:12:07] And helps trust in this virtuous cycle where all of a sudden, now that person is, I'm a safe person to you. Not only were you able to come to me and I didn't either judge you or problem solve or dismiss, now you're going to come to me again.

You're going to share more of your story. Now I can build my, the classroom environment in a way that's more attuned to your needs. The relationship grows. The learning grows again in that virtuous cycle to speak quickly to, you said, how does student SEL differ from educator SEL? I think the truth of the matter is ideally, both are really about providing students and educators with secure relationships so that they can grow because in the same way that social learnings for students sn't cognitive. It's not a worksheet. My fear is that as the field of educator, social, emotional learning growth, that we're just going to copy and paste the cognitive approach. And that is not what educators need. We need relationships, secure spaces, a secure school, secure principals, to be able to build the secure relationships that can help educators thrive and grow into the best versions of themselves.

Kelley Munger: [00:13:13] I'd love to throw in a little personal story at it. Of my young learner self in the third grade, one of my most vivid memories of the education system was when my third grade teacher shamed me for my lack of self-control. And I remember it, it was so stressful for me, the experience that I remember exactly where I was, that the lighting was low with standing beside the water fountain.

And we were supposed to be in line and I was squirrelly out of line, apparently jumping in and out of the line. And, and my teacher grabbed me and said, you've got to learn self-control with a really harsh voice. And, you know, I look back on that and I'm sure she was just frustrated with me. And perhaps the whole class and maybe stuff was going on with her at home.

But I internalized that moment. Not as a moment of, Oh, and now I'm learning to control myself and my impulses. I'm now I'm reg regulating myself. I remember as a moment of, I am bad, there is something wrong with me. And and so I think that, wow, I think back what if my teacher had said, Hey Kelly, Oh, it seems like you, you have a lot of energy in your body today.

How can we calm down together? We're going to sit in line, right? That if she had been able to tune into me, look beneath that how differently I would have experienced that moment and how that would have contributed to my SEL growth. She knew what skill that I needed. She just didn't know how to give that skill to me.

Rebecca Midles: [00:14:54] Right. So many things I'm thinking of that you. That you both have brought up. I'm hearing some do's and some don'ts, which is helpful in some examples. I'm also thinking about, I love that you brought up a secondary example because often in this conversation, there is the talk about the predisposition that elementary teachers maybe have more equipped for this, or maybe have thought about it more.

And I would argue maybe they were drawn to it because they had it. I don't know that it was explicitly taught. But certainly comes up in secondary. In the, in the same way that teachers would, would often say this isn't something I was trained to do. It's not something I came to the profession to do.

And then there's often that conversation about choosing content or are we choosing learners and then content. And so with those in mind, I I'm thinking about These are great ideas about how to teach this skill and not just expect it because it can be another kind of gotcha system, right? Like just like behaviors and discipline.

If it hasn't been explicitly taught expectations or hasn't been role modeled or given space for conversation or some trusting relationships to grow, sometimes it can seem like a punitive structure that kids don't know what's expected and they're going to keep trying until they figure it out or at least.

You know, have someone have some straight talks with them. So what are some do's and maybe some don't. So you don't have to do a long list, but just to give us an idea, we can always find out more from you that you would, you would maybe call out for teachers and thinking about that, because that was a good example of a dome with an example of potential do, when you're thinking about SEL, what are things that you might hear out there that kind of like, Ooh, maybe I would change the way we do that. Like, here's your chance? What would you share with us?

Kelley Munger: [00:16:27] Oh man. There's this is our moment to share. So, you know, I know we, we did already alluded to this with that last example, but it's so, so, so important that do mirror your students' experiences. I think I really, really believe that is the one most powerful intervention that is untapped inside of schools.

Am I call it an intervention? It's a skill. That's rooted in self-awareness but the ability to tune in, Oh, it seems like you're having a hard day. I can see that you're frustrated or even I can see that you're so excited, you know, celebrating those, sharing joy with students. So do share joy, do share sorrow.

Loss, disappointment, and frustration with students. And I don't know if that quite answers the question, but I want to say, do go to therapy for the educator when I'm thinking about educator as SEL and about adult adults, being able to really implement SEL inside the classroom. I'm very, very aware.

I don't know if you if we mentioned this, I am myself, a therapist. I'm an, I've been practicing for a decade. I'm very aware that the more any educator can receive empathic understanding for their own story, that the more they can name their own triggers and grow in self-awareness the more SEL becomes an organic process that unfolds in the classroom.

And so that may it's not really a do and don't as in, in the classroom, but it's a powerful practice. Learn to mirror and make sense of your story. Meg, do you have any don'ts or any dues to add? I might as well,

I think a "do" to add is bringing yourself into the classroom. I think a lot of times there's these I don't know, these kinds of rules, I guess that educators have is like don't smile till Christmas. Right?

Rebecca Midles: [00:18:39] Joel Hammons from KnowledgeWorks just posted an article about that. Like when he was going through his pre-service, he was told don't smile until Christmas or they'll eat you alive. Right. And how that was not helpful. So I appreciate that you call that out.

Megan Marcus: [00:18:50] Because humans are social creatures. So throughout human history we've survived. The relationships in any learning that we've ever done has been through relationships. No single person exists in nature, right? You're actually better off developmentally to be in an abusive relationship than to be a single person alone in the woods, essentially.

And so think about that and the fact that so much learning happens through relationship. It's the only way that we can turn on learning. And so one way to do that is tuning into your students, making them feel like a person, but the other thing that's going to turn them on is to see you're a person too.

And that goes as far as saying, letting students know when you're frustrated. Letting students know when you're upset or off-kilter. And I think the key to the self-awareness journey here is when we don't do that deeper self-work about our past and our present relationship patterns. Sometimes the way that we express ourselves genuinely is not so healthy.

So many words, we might either repress our feelings or they'll come out without the warmth and the vulnerability that's needed for it to be effective. It's very easy to, to the, the nuanced difference between. I'm feeling really frustrated here, here, guys. I don't know what to do versus I'm frustrated and right.

Like, for one this can bring about a feeling of shame and the students they need to perform for this teacher. They're responsible for the teacher's feelings versus Whoa. My teacher who cares about me is a little off. Like what can I do to get in line so that we can have the right... get our relationship right? The relationship is the educator's base of power, which means that we don't have to not smile till Christmas, be this bring the power externally when the power can come from the relationship. And the only way it can is if we share meaning, share listening, share our own stories. It's that balance between sharing ourselves and giving other space to share and, and really mutual relationship with a lot of mutual trust and honoring of the individuals, both the educator and the students.

Rebecca Midles: [00:21:01] I think this really aligns to something I believe Megan said we probably both have said this, that the best professional development or professional learning for a teacher is that personal work, which you're, you're further emphasizing here. And I think about how that, you know, you're trying to help people in schools do that, and you've got some counselors ready to support that. it's a wonderful setup.

I think you've also both of you have probably mentioned that that would be really great for scale work, to have that as a prerequisite for, or a requisite for pre teachers that are getting ready to do the tough work ahead of them and really connect with learners and create these learning spaces.

Other pieces that you would add for scaling, that would be helpful as people are listening to this conversation.

Megan Marcus: [00:21:42] Yeah. And you're pointing to Rebecca, the kind of inception of FuelEd was because I had wanted to be a therapist myself. And when I was working with Dr. Kaleena on the book, the social neuroscience of education, I realized the power of relationships when applied to the education system, coupled with this gap in educator preparation, that whereby educators focus on content, knowledge, instructional skills, but nothing about relationships.

And yet here was this field of study counseling and psychotherapy that has a lot of great practices for growing your relationship skills, growing your self-awareness so that you can put that in service of helping others grow and learn. So it's like, well, why don't we just adapt or translate some of these best practices, including not just therapy for therapists so that they can get healthy and whole before doing the work, but counseling or psychotherapy for educators.

In terms of other kinds of scalable avenues. I, 100% think that this ultimately needs to be a gap that's filled in educator preparation. If we want to redefine what it means to be an educator, so that it's more aligned with their actual day-to-day work, which is highly emotional, highly interpersonal, and actually aligned with what the science says is effective, which again, Emotions and relationships.

Then we have to make the systems of training pre-service training, as well as in-service support and school culture to be aligned with those things as well.

Rebecca Midles: [00:23:06] So more strategies to nurture those relationships between adults in the building to also support that work that they're getting prepared to do and how we honor them.

Within the leadership and school-based structure, correct?

Yeah. Yes, exactly.

Kelley Munger: [00:23:19] We already had a lot of those structures in place. It's a matter of a little rearranging the furniture a little, right. Even in pre-service, which I was a master of supervisor for four years, and during my Ph.D. program and the pre,, our pre-service program was essentially a mentorship program.

Right. And so I was mentoring young teachers getting ready to go out in the field. And so had we had more structure around creating relationship-based practices within that training that I think would be a powerful and beautiful shift in what it means to become an educator. It's not, it's something you become.

And as there as a therapist has gone through therapist training, that was hard, a long and, but extremely valuable journey. Of discovering myself as experiencing healing. And I think we can provide that for educators.

Rebecca Midles: [00:24:19] Yeah, I think so. Obviously, we were talking about a really important topic that a lot of people it's on their minds, the pandemic has brought up a lot of topics and, and build awareness and topics that have always been a need.

One of them being anti-racist teaching. I would love for us to bring those two together with you. Ways that we can talk about how anti-racist teaching is supported. To the work that you've been talking about with social, emotional learning, professional learning, but also just in the, in the spaces that you're making for those relationships to grow. Could you speak a little bit more about that?

Kelley Munger: [00:24:49] Sure. So like you said, it's been quite a year surfacing really long experienced racism in this country. A massive shift in perspective and awareness. And, and so it just so happened that I feel that in orange monoculture back a year or more than a year ago, we have begun to do our own.

Storytelling around art and DEI initiative or diversity equity and inclusion initiative inside of FuelEd . And we had a very powerful experience together in which we, and we are a very diverse team, shared our stories of who we are in terms of our identity around gender, around race culture, et cetera.

And by creating a safe environment to share our stories, our collected stories, deepened our relationships internally. And so that really began as, as things in America this year began to unfold the collective trauma that Americans have been through this year, we began to talk about, wow, what, you know, what is the integration between "we want to be a part of anti-racist movement and anti-racist movement" and "how does that work with what we're doing?" And one thing that we've realized is that when we experience attachment and trauma or stress, we don't just do that in our individual stories. We do that in our collective and historical stories.

I would even say generational stories. And so when we do the work of the self. We also have to do the work of acknowledging and receiving healing and empathy for our collective traumas, whether that's racial trauma or trauma related to other identities. And we have to if we're going to grow as anti-racist educators, we have to be able to take the perspective of someone who's experienced racial trauma.

If I'm speaking as a white educator And so growing and self-awareness along with growing and perspective, taking and empathy, doesn't just include the story of an individual. It includes the collective and historical trauma that is embedded inside that experience of that long experience of not feeling safe, of not feeling known, that many BIPOC people in the United States have very clearly expressed.

And so for us, part of acknowledging the power of attachment and, and empathy is acknowledging that it, that is also part of what we need in order to really see and heal wounds of trauma around race and identity in America.

Rebecca Midles: [00:27:52] Appreciate you sharing that your organization took that on and the process they went through.

Helpful for others to hear and think about those ideas. I'm sure that you might be able to share more about that on your site that we'll, we'll share out later that, you know, folks are interested in doing something very similar. I think that would be helpful. And, and I also appreciate that you recognize this may be a newly aware challenge collectively, but as in no way know, So I appreciate that you're bringing that up and ways that we can combine the efforts and not have it feel like an add on.

In addition to that, I would love for us to think about the year that we have had people go through. You touched on it just now. You definitely talk about the pandemic and the changes and the mediums that we were asked teachers to do, and all of the kids that we've lost in this process, and we don't know where they're at.

So, and, and, you know, those impact those students, those impact those students, certainly, but they impact the teachers who are looking for those spaces are wondering where those kids are so ways that we can talk about how we would address that kind of large scale trauma, as you've said, collective stories that people have experienced this year, ways that we could help educators some ideas.

Kelley Munger: [00:29:02] Right. Well, when practice we've used that we really initiated in the wake of this trauma and beginning in the spring, it's called, we call it empathy circles. And so we offer empathy circles regularly, and it is a time and a space to come together and to feel safe, to actually digest the trauma and that the emotions the experiences that folks are having everywhere right now. And so I think that that's a very scalable practice across systems where, you know, it sounds really simple, but to create safe time and space is not actually a given. It's not something that's a given inside of a lot of educational systems.

So again, simple time and space where people can resonate with one another. And even better if those people are equipped with the basic skills of empathy, right. So that they can list out. And so our spaces are facilitated by a really skilled trainer so that that modeling can be provided. But I think that there are ways to create that kind of, those kinds of trusting circles and other spaces.

Meg, would you add anything to that in terms of how we're gonna address and digest that the horror of this year.

Megan Marcus: [00:30:24] Yeah. I just think I want to take the moment to attune to the educators out there. Not just the teachers and the principals and the district leaders, but the parents who've become educators.

Already parents are educators, but even more so I'm bridging into this moment just this immense amount of stress and overwhelm that the system and all the individuals and it had been under. And Yeah, just really wanting to say we see you, you know, we see that all that educators are doing right now to hold up.

So many aspects of our society that have just collapsed overnight, you know, not just from the school, but all the afterschool web of support that usually holds our students and educators are doing so much. And I think what Kelly said is just right, we need, every educator needs, at least one person or one space to go to where they can feel heard.

So in addition to circles peer support, How can you pair the educators in your building to provide what we call stewardship to one another. And we kind of launched, we have a program that teaches folks how to set that up, but it's something that, that anyone anywhere can do, whether they're an individual educator who says, I need this, I need to find one educator that I know to create this cadence and regular connection.

Or if you're in a position of power in a school and can set that up for a wider range of folks, important to think about the safety of the folks and safety comes from some of that skill-building and empathic listening. But there's a lot that we can do to support and hold one another through this.

And that's what humans do well in times of crisis, we huddle up to get through tough times

Rebecca Midles: [00:32:01] Important for us to make space for that. I appreciate the different ways that you talked about that. I'm definitely it's on our mind students. Have returned in many cases, certainly not on the West coast.

We're getting there are, are starting to return to school and personal agenda inserted here, warning, the best thing I think we can do is not talk about learning loss as those students and families are sending their children back and really addressing and giving space for them to have these types of conversations with the teacher.

They know now whether that's remotely or they've had the hybrid all year. Or in-person in some cases, but making space for that, certainly not forgetting that though, as we start the year next year with new faces, potentially, and new teachers, how you still give space for that and how you have ways to role model and make relationships happening in your, your sphere of influence and how we can bring staff together first to get ready to receive those families as they get ready for what may potentially feel.

I dunno if I want to say normal because I have issues with it, with the school system as it is now. So I would say as best as it can be in our personalized learning sense where we truly meet kids, where they're at advocate for that certainly in school systems across the country, in the academic side that you mentioned, but I would say ultimately more important.

And what we've been talking about today, how can we meet kids where they're at and help them learn more about who they are and build that those skillsets. So really appreciate what you guys have shared today. I know you can tell us a little bit about more, where we can learn from where we can go to and reach out to you, please. Please do.

Megan Marcus: [00:33:40] Yes, we'd love to be in touch. If any of this resonated with you, you can visit our website and we're on social media @fueledschools. And we have lots of great free resources like webinars on our website, as well as our blog. And then if you want to engage with us further, you know where to reach us too.

Rebecca Midles: [00:33:57] Thank you both.

Megan Marcus: [00:33:59] Thank you. This has been really wonderful.

Kelley Munger: [00:34:01] Thank you for having us.

About the author

Megan Marcus

Partner & Founder - San Diego CA

Megan holds a B.A. in Psychology from the University of California at Berkeley and Master’s degrees in Psychology from Pepperdine University. While at Pepperdine, Megan studied under Dr. Louis Cozolino and served as the lead researcher for his book, The Social Neuroscience of Education. Megan then completed a Master’s degree in Education, Policy, and Management from Harvard University, where she explored how to translate the elements of a therapists’ professional training to an educational setting. Her research with Dr. Cozolino and studies at Harvard combined to form the core beliefs that became the bedrock of FuelEd. Since 2012, Megan has passionately served the educational community as FuelEd’s Founder.

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